state of the project?

[Andreas Jellinghaus-4]

Hi,

I wonder what we can or should do to improve the state of the project.
It seems to me:
* the last release was 0.12.2, released on 17.07.2011, not enough
progress to create a release since.
* that is a maintenance release, the last major version was opensc
0.12.0 in 22-Dec-2010.
* discussions about new server / some migration / some improvement
etc. are similar old, no significant results yet

While there have been some proposals, e.g. in the thread about the
future of the server, there hasn't been any real
discussion, no back and forth about the merrits of the different
proposals, and no convergence on one option or decission
by anyone.

It seems to me the state of the project is defunct: while there are
requests, proposals, options and offerings, we are not
getting towards a decission or action it seems, as noone decides
anything or gets people to agree or to do things.

I haven't touched a smart card in over a year, so don't expect me to
do anything - that wouldn't work.

But if anyone is still concerned about the project, I think it is time
you take action. Don't look for anyone else,
it is you or noone. But many people offered help, if you want to drive
the project forward.

Regards, Andreas
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[Viktor Tarasov-3]

Hello,

Le 11/11/2012 16:28, Andreas Jellinghaus a écrit :
> I wonder what we can or should do to improve the state of the project.
> It seems to me:
> * the last release was 0.12.2, released on 17.07.2011, not enough
> progress to create a release since.
> * that is a maintenance release, the last major version was opensc
> 0.12.0 in 22-Dec-2010.

We are preparing 0.13.0 release on the base of the master/staging branch of Github OpenSC/OpenSC.
Now it's at rc1.
The candidates have been relatively well tested with some cards.
The nightly builds and release candidates are on the OpenSC file server and in CI service.

My intention is to publish the next major release during the last two weeks of November.
There are still few regression issues with MacOS and old cards.

I guess it's a good occasion to migrate the project.

What is the procedure to follow when publishing a new major release ?

> * discussions about new server / some migration / some improvement
> etc. are similar old, no significant results yet
>
> While there have been some proposals, e.g. in the thread about the
> future of the server, there hasn't been any real
> discussion, no back and forth about the merrits of the different
> proposals, and no convergence on one option or decission
> by anyone.
>
> It seems to me the state of the project is defunct: while there are
> requests, proposals, options and offerings, we are not
> getting towards a decission or action it seems, as noone decides
> anything or gets people to agree or to do things.
>
> I haven't touched a smart card in over a year, so don't expect me to
> do anything - that wouldn't work.
>
> But if anyone is still concerned about the project, I think it is time
> you take action. Don't look for anyone else,
> it is you or noone. But many people offered help, if you want to drive
> the project forward.

I propose to start migration the week 19-25.11 . I'll have more free time:
- sources: all sources will migrate to github;
- CI: CI server is currently hosted by 'opensc.fr' ;
- download: on the same platform can be hosted the file server;
- TRAC (wiki?): it seems that Peter Stuge proposed to do something with Trac.
Peter, if you are here, can you take this part, or at least explain how it could be done, please?
If no suggestions, Trac can also be hosted by 'opensc.fr' .
- mailling list: the same, if no other suggestions, I'm ready to install/migrate it to 'opensc.fr' platform.
Would be nice if one of the experts explain what is the actions to follow for such migration.


> Regards, Andreas

Kind wishes,
Viktor.

> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> http://www.opensc-project.org/mailman/listinfo/opensc-devel
>

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[Ludovic Rousseau]

Hello,

2012/11/11 Viktor Tarasov <[hidden email]>

I propose to start migration the week 19-25.11 . I'll have more free time:
- sources: all sources will migrate to github;

I just migrated the following projects to github on the OpenSC organization:

- libp11

- engine_pkcs11

- pam_p11

- pam_pkcs11

See https://github.com/OpenSC

I could not migrate:

- pkcs11-help. Something fails in the authors names conversion

I have not tried to migrate:

- OpenCT

- OpenSC-Java

Aren't these projects obsolete now?

I used svn2git [1] with the attached authors.txt file

- TRAC (wiki?): it seems that Peter Stuge proposed to do something with Trac.
Peter, if you are here, can you take this part, or at least explain how it could be done, please?
If no suggestions, Trac can also be hosted by 'opensc.fr' .

github provides a wiki and bug tracking system.

I have no objection to use trac at opensc.fr.

- mailling list: the same, if no other suggestions, I'm ready to install/migrate it to 'opensc.fr' platform.
Would be nice if one of the experts explain what is the actions to follow for such migration.

opensc-project.org use mailman as the list manager and

# list_lists 
5 matching mailing lists found:
            Mailman - [no description available]
    opensc-announce - A mailing list for OpenSC announcements
     opensc-commits - OpenSC source code commit notifications
       opensc-devel - Development of OpenSC and other smart card related software
        opensc-user - (INACTIVE) A mailing list for OpenSC users

I can retrieve the list of subscribers using list_members(8).
Vitkor, it looks like you do not have access to the opensc-project.org system. I can help you with the migration.

Viktor, I am not/no more a Unix system admin. But I volunteer to help if needed. I think it is a good idea to have more than one (you?) system administrator.

Andreas, the host available at opensc-project.org will disapear at the end of the year 2012 [2]. The domain name has been transfered to Martin Paljak a year ago [3]. But Martin is now missing. Can you transfer the opensc-project.org domain name to Viktor or someone else?

Regards,

[1] https://github.com/nirvdrum/svn2git
[2] http://www.opensc-project.org/pipermail/opensc-devel/2012-September/018377.html
[3] http://www.opensc-project.org/pipermail/opensc-devel/2011-October/017312.html

--
 Dr. Ludovic Rousseau

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[Ludovic Rousseau]

2012/11/14 Ludovic Rousseau <[hidden email]>

I could not migrate:

- pkcs11-help. Something fails in the authors names conversion

I forked the github repository of Alon. pkcs11-helper is now available under the OpenSC organization.
https://github.com/OpenSC/pkcs11-helper

I have not tried to migrate:

- OpenCT

- OpenSC-Java

Aren't these projects obsolete now?

I tried to convert OpenCT.
But I could not get the author correspondence. Some SVN revisions have no author and confuse svn2git.

Bye

--
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[Alon Bar-Lev]

On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 10:20 PM, Ludovic Rousseau
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> 2012/11/14 Ludovic Rousseau <[hidden email]>
>>
>> I could not migrate:
>> - pkcs11-help. Something fails in the authors names conversion
>
>
> I forked the github repository of Alon. pkcs11-helper is now available under the OpenSC organization.
> https://github.com/OpenSC/pkcs11-helper
>
>> I have not tried to migrate:
>> - OpenCT
>> - OpenSC-Java
>> Aren't these projects obsolete now?
>
>
> I tried to convert OpenCT.
> But I could not get the author correspondence. Some SVN revisions have no author and confuse svn2git.

I will prepare github for you to use.

>
> Bye
>
> --
>  Dr. Ludovic Rousseau
>
> _______________________________________________
> opensc-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://www.opensc-project.org/mailman/listinfo/opensc-devel

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[Andreas Schwier]

We are still maintaining a version of OpenSC-Java. If you migrate the
repo to GITHUB I will care for it.

Andreas

Am 14.11.2012 21:20, schrieb Ludovic Rousseau:

>
> 2012/11/14 Ludovic Rousseau <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>
>     I could not migrate:
>     - pkcs11-help. Something fails in the authors names conversion
>
>
> I forked the github repository of Alon. pkcs11-helper is now available
> under the OpenSC organization.
> https://github.com/OpenSC/pkcs11-helper
>
>     I have not tried to migrate:
>     - OpenCT
>     - OpenSC-Java
>     Aren't these projects obsolete now?
>
>
> I tried to convert OpenCT.
> But I could not get the author correspondence. Some SVN revisions have
> no author and confuse svn2git.
>
> Bye
>
> --
>  Dr. Ludovic Rousseau
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> opensc-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://www.opensc-project.org/mailman/listinfo/opensc-devel

--

    ---------    CardContact Software & System Consulting
   |.##> <##.|   Andreas Schwier
   |#       #|   Schülerweg 38
   |#       #|   32429 Minden, Germany
   |'##> <##'|   Phone [phone]
    ---------    http://www.cardcontact.de
                 http://www.tscons.de
                 http://www.openscdp.org

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[Ludovic Rousseau]

2012/11/14 Andreas Schwier <[hidden email]>

We are still maintaining a version of OpenSC-Java. If you migrate the
repo to GITHUB I will care for it.

Now available at https://github.com/OpenSC/OpenSC-Java

I pushed 3 branches:
- master
- pkcs11-0.2-branch
- pkcs11-test-0.2-branch

The latest commit in master is 4 years old.

Bye

--
 Dr. Ludovic Rousseau

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[Andreas Jellinghaus-4]

2012/11/14 Ludovic Rousseau <[hidden email]>:
> Andreas, the host available at opensc-project.org will disapear at the end
> of the year 2012 [2]. The domain name has been transfered to Martin Paljak a
> year ago [3]. But Martin is now missing. Can you transfer the
> opensc-project.org domain name to Viktor or someone else?

Sorry, only Martin has now access to the domain :(

Andreas
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[Peter Stuge-4]

Ludovic Rousseau wrote:
> Andreas, the host available at opensc-project.org will disapear at the
> end of the year 2012 [2].

I think you misunderstood what Andreas wrote in his email.

I think that what Andreas was saying is that someone else needs to be
root and care for the machine.

I don't expect that it will be any problem whatsoever to keep the VM
around until whenever it is easy to change DNS, as long as someone is
actually taking care of the system.

Of course when noone is able to and other offers aren't useful, then
all that remains is to rely on free (beer) services like github or SF.


//Peter
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[Peter Stuge-4]

Viktor Tarasov wrote:
> I propose to start migration the week 19-25.11 . I'll have more free time:
> - sources: all sources will migrate to github;
> - CI: CI server is currently hosted by 'opensc.fr' ;
> - download: on the same platform can be hosted the file server;
> - TRAC (wiki?): it seems that Peter Stuge proposed to do something
> with Trac.
> Peter, if you are here, can you take this part, or at least explain
> how it could be done, please?
> If no suggestions, Trac can also be hosted by 'opensc.fr' .

Educating someone on how to do a migration is as I'm sure you know a
whole lot more work than performing the migration. If there's desire
I'm of course still happy to host a Trac, but please keep in mind
that Trac is a lot less useful when source code is somewhere else.

Please add my SSH key on the server and let me know, if you want me
to look into moving Trac out.


> - mailling list: the same, if no other suggestions, I'm ready to
> install/migrate it to 'opensc.fr' platform.
> Would be nice if one of the experts explain what is the actions to
> follow for such migration.

I don't like mailman too much. I've set it up, but I don't use it.
I'd suggest using SF for the list(s?).


//Peter
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[Alon Bar-Lev]

On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 10:22 PM, Alon Bar-Lev <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 10:20 PM, Ludovic Rousseau
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> 2012/11/14 Ludovic Rousseau <[hidden email]>
>>>
>>> I could not migrate:
>>> - pkcs11-help. Something fails in the authors names conversion
>>
>>
>> I forked the github repository of Alon. pkcs11-helper is now available under the OpenSC organization.
>> https://github.com/OpenSC/pkcs11-helper
>>
>>> I have not tried to migrate:
>>> - OpenCT
>>> - OpenSC-Java
>>> Aren't these projects obsolete now?
>>
>>
>> I tried to convert OpenCT.
>> But I could not get the author correspondence. Some SVN revisions have no author and confuse svn2git.
>
> I will prepare github for you to use.

Ready:
https://github.com/alonbl/openct
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[Peter Stuge-4]

Andreas Jellinghaus wrote:
> I wonder what we can or should do to improve the state of the project.

I think it's clear that only very few entities are putting resources
into the project.


> there hasn't been any real discussion, no back and forth about the
> merrits of the different proposals, and no convergence on one
> option or decission by anyone.

I think even this is way too much to expect from those who do put
resources into the project. Noone who is contributing seems to have
much experience from hosting, so discussion about hosting is really
difficult. (I may have plenty of experience, but I don't contribute
very much to the project.)


> It seems to me the state of the project is defunct: while there are
> requests, proposals, options and offerings, we are not getting
> towards a decission or action it seems, as noone decides anything
> or gets people to agree or to do things.

There's a fairly fundamental disagreement between development styles.
I e.g. advocate security-conscious development and great results,
even if slow, while everyone else who has spoken on that matter
advocates fast change with perhaps less importance on technical
quality and elegance.

It's sad that less-than-great results is acceptable in open source
under any circumstance, but since I'm not even putting development
resources into the project it doesn't matter at all what I think
about that.

IMO it's largely a waste of time to migrate away from an existing
working system unless the services really can not be updated in
place.


//Peter
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[Viktor Tarasov-3]

Hello Peter,

Le 16/11/2012 21:42, Peter Stuge a écrit :

> Viktor Tarasov wrote:
>> I propose to start migration the week 19-25.11 . I'll have more free time:
>> - sources: all sources will migrate to github;
>> - CI: CI server is currently hosted by 'opensc.fr' ;
>> - download: on the same platform can be hosted the file server;
>> - TRAC (wiki?): it seems that Peter Stuge proposed to do something
>> with Trac.
>> Peter, if you are here, can you take this part, or at least explain
>> how it could be done, please?
>> If no suggestions, Trac can also be hosted by 'opensc.fr' .
> Educating someone on how to do a migration is as I'm sure you know a
> whole lot more work than performing the migration. If there's desire
> I'm of course still happy to host a Trac, but please keep in mind
> that Trac is a lot less useful when source code is somewhere else.

It seems that decision to move all sources to github is accepted.
Do you mean that with sources on github it would be more useful to use the bug system and wiki on github,
as Ludovic proposed,
and not the Trac installed on someone's platform ?
(I need some time to discover Trac's internals and how it interacts with SCM .)

As far as I understood, in any case we have to start from sqlite dump of the current OpenSC Trac.
Andreas, can you do it, please ?

> Please add my SSH key on the server and let me know, if you want me
> to look into moving Trac out.
>
>
>> - mailling list: the same, if no other suggestions, I'm ready to
>> install/migrate it to 'opensc.fr' platform.
>> Would be nice if one of the experts explain what is the actions to
>> follow for such migration.
> I don't like mailman too much. I've set it up, but I don't use it.
> I'd suggest using SF for the list(s?).

Could you expand 'SF' or give the link, please?

> //Peter

Kind regards,
Viktor.

> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> http://www.opensc-project.org/mailman/listinfo/opensc-devel
>

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[Peter Stuge-4]

Viktor Tarasov wrote:
> Do you mean that with sources on github it would be more useful to
> use the bug system and wiki on github, as Ludovic proposed,
> and not the Trac installed on someone's platform ?

I don't know how well github issues and wiki integrate with repos -
what I've seen isn't too convincing. :\

Trac somewhere else will not automatically know what happens in
repositories on github. I don't know if github can be told to push
out events to somewhere else. Worst case it is of course possible to
poll github for changes, but that's not really nice.


> (I need some time to discover Trac's internals and how it interacts
> with SCM .)

The Trac repo model unfortunately doesn't fit Git too well, so
Trac+Git operation is not as simple as it could have been. The
reason is simply that Trac is from a time with no Git.

Internals aside, external interaction amounts to telling Trac that a
commit was added to a repository, by running trac-admin changeset
added $reponame $changeid for each new commit. If history rewriting
is allowed then it's neccessary to run a different command, resync,
whenever a rewrite happens.


> As far as I understood, in any case we have to start from sqlite
> dump of the current OpenSC Trac. Andreas, can you do it, please ?

Unfortunately the sqlite database isn't enough. If I'm going to do a
migration please just add my key on the server.


//Peter
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[Peter Stuge-4]

Viktor Tarasov wrote:
> >> - mailling list: the same, if no other suggestions, I'm ready to
> >> install/migrate it to 'opensc.fr' platform.
> >> Would be nice if one of the experts explain what is the actions to
> >> follow for such migration.
> > I don't like mailman too much. I've set it up, but I don't use it.
> > I'd suggest using SF for the list(s?).
>
> Could you expand 'SF' or give the link, please?

Sorry - missed this one. SF = sourceforge

While I disagree with most other uses of SF because of their quite
unfriendly terms of service (a function of US law of course) I think
that mailing lists are OK. Subscribing to lists doesn't require an SF
account, and SF doesn't add overly much spam to the posts.


//Peter
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[Andreas Jellinghaus-4]

2012/11/16 Peter Stuge <[hidden email]>:

> Ludovic Rousseau wrote:
>> Andreas, the host available at opensc-project.org will disapear at the
>> end of the year 2012 [2].
>
> I think you misunderstood what Andreas wrote in his email.
>
> I think that what Andreas was saying is that someone else needs to be
> root and care for the machine.
>
> I don't expect that it will be any problem whatsoever to keep the VM
> around until whenever it is easy to change DNS, as long as someone is
> actually taking care of the system.

well, noone is maintaining the VM. so if we don't have enough resorces
for this now, it is not proper to assume we will magically have them
sometimes later. the more I think about it, the more I think using a
service is better than running your own server. github, sourceforge,
savannah, code.google.com - its not like we don't have options. worst
case I can do something, but it seems people already migrated all code
to github, so that part is taken care of. the mailing list is archived
in many other places, so I guess we don't need to migrate the mailing
list archive. as for the list itself, extracting subscribers and
asking them to subscribe somewhere (e.g. a new groups.google.com list
or some other place) should be easy.
as for trac: no idea what to do best. I think the wiki pages are
valuable. the bug tracking I see as nice to have, but not essential.
Of course if someone wants to invest time into this - then it is also
your choice to take the proper direction.

Andreas

> Of course when noone is able to and other offers aren't useful, then
> all that remains is to rely on free (beer) services like github or SF.
>
>
> //Peter
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[Andreas Jellinghaus-4]

2012/11/16 Viktor Tarasov <[hidden email]>:

> Hello Peter,
>
> Le 16/11/2012 21:42, Peter Stuge a écrit :
>> Viktor Tarasov wrote:
>>> I propose to start migration the week 19-25.11 . I'll have more free time:
>>> - sources: all sources will migrate to github;
>>> - CI: CI server is currently hosted by 'opensc.fr' ;
>>> - download: on the same platform can be hosted the file server;
>>> - TRAC (wiki?): it seems that Peter Stuge proposed to do something
>>> with Trac.
>>> Peter, if you are here, can you take this part, or at least explain
>>> how it could be done, please?
>>> If no suggestions, Trac can also be hosted by 'opensc.fr' .
>> Educating someone on how to do a migration is as I'm sure you know a
>> whole lot more work than performing the migration. If there's desire
>> I'm of course still happy to host a Trac, but please keep in mind
>> that Trac is a lot less useful when source code is somewhere else.
>
> It seems that decision to move all sources to github is accepted.
> Do you mean that with sources on github it would be more useful to use the bug system and wiki on github,
> as Ludovic proposed,
> and not the Trac installed on someone's platform ?
> (I need some time to discover Trac's internals and how it interacts with SCM .)
>
> As far as I understood, in any case we have to start from sqlite dump of the current OpenSC Trac.
> Andreas, can you do it, please ?

sure, send a mail. trac is kept in postgresql though, not sqlite. we
have nightly backups, if you want the
dump files. plus of course the backup directory with templates,
attachments and so on.

>> Please add my SSH key on the server and let me know, if you want me
>> to look into moving Trac out.
>>
>>
>>> - mailling list: the same, if no other suggestions, I'm ready to
>>> install/migrate it to 'opensc.fr' platform.
>>> Would be nice if one of the experts explain what is the actions to
>>> follow for such migration.
>> I don't like mailman too much. I've set it up, but I don't use it.
>> I'd suggest using SF for the list(s?).
>
> Could you expand 'SF' or give the link, please?

SF is sourceforge.net I guess? it still has the opensc project (that
was used many, many years ago).
Owners are juha and olaf - if you can reach them, you can re-activate it.

Andreas

>
>> //Peter
>
> Kind regards,
> Viktor.
>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> [hidden email]
>> http://www.opensc-project.org/mailman/listinfo/opensc-devel
>>
>
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[Ludovic Rousseau]

2012/11/16 Alon Bar-Lev <[hidden email]>

On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 10:22 PM, Alon Bar-Lev <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 10:20 PM, Ludovic Rousseau
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> 2012/11/14 Ludovic Rousseau <[hidden email]>
>>>
>>> I could not migrate:
>>> - pkcs11-help. Something fails in the authors names conversion
>>
>>
>> I forked the github repository of Alon. pkcs11-helper is now available under the OpenSC organization.
>> https://github.com/OpenSC/pkcs11-helper
>>
>>> I have not tried to migrate:
>>> - OpenCT
>>> - OpenSC-Java
>>> Aren't these projects obsolete now?
>>
>>
>> I tried to convert OpenCT.
>> But I could not get the author correspondence. Some SVN revisions have no author and confuse svn2git.
>
> I will prepare github for you to use.

Ready:
https://github.com/alonbl/openct

Forked at https://github.com/OpenSC/openct

Thanks

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[Ludovic Rousseau]

2012/11/17 Andreas Jellinghaus <[hidden email]>
> SF is sourceforge.net I guess? it still has the opensc project (that
> was used many, many years ago).
> Owners are juha and olaf - if you can reach them, you can re-activate it.

I just sent a email to Olaf and Juha. I hope they still read the
emails sent to their SF.net contact address.

If we can't (re)use the SourceForge OpenSC project then hosting the
OpenSC mailing list(s) at groups.google.com would be a good solution.

Bye

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[Ludovic Rousseau]

2012/11/17 Ludovic Rousseau <[hidden email]>:
> 2012/11/17 Andreas Jellinghaus <[hidden email]>
>> SF is sourceforge.net I guess? it still has the opensc project (that
>> was used many, many years ago).
>> Owners are juha and olaf - if you can reach them, you can re-activate it.
>
> I just sent a email to Olaf and Juha. I hope they still read the
> emails sent to their SF.net contact address.

That was fast.
Juha added me as admin.

It would be best if other active people are also added as admin.
Viktor, do you have a SourceForge account?

BYe

--
 Dr. Ludovic Rousseau
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